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Lead off piece (Read 4851 times)
gherkin
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Lead off piece
May 4th, 2010, 6:48am
 
What would you say the best lead off (front rank, right in the columns) pieces are?
 
I have noticed the 3 main lead off pieces seem to be lieuts, capts, and majors; sometimes in combintation, or sometimes with a scout or serg accompaniment.
 
It also seems like the stronger the player, the higher pieces they can safely put into any flank's lead off pieces without losing them (or losing the game) due to the opponent having their location pinpointed. I see a lot of beginning players lead off with lieuts, and a lot of more developed players leading off with majors even. I am sure it is possible to start off with higher pieces effectively, but I think few have those skills (or am I wrong?).
 
IMO, winning early conflicts in both info and especially piece count is very influential on mid-game play, so these initial skirmishes have a dramatic effect on the overall game results.
 
What front line pieces do you reccommend; when, and why?
 
I myself often lead off with captains. They usually win the first opening skirmish (79% of all moved pieces die if attacked), unless your opponent has a major in that spot (very unlikely, IMO). Then it attacks the other piece as well (or more likely the next piece the opp brings), almost lotto style. If it is a major or better then yeah you die - but it's good info, and you usually made up the pieces and most of the strength too.  
 
I find that when I lead with majors it often leads to the enemies' real big guns being pulled out right away - and once they have them out the best thing for them to do is press you with them, and I find this usually too early to be hampered unnecessarily in this way. Though using majors does tend to gain both good info and piece count advantage early, sometimes you lose the opportunity if scouted with a serg or scout first piece, and losing even one more major (which seems to happen a lot more often) is a lot more painful and cannot be made up as easily.  
 
I'm not that big a fan of leading off with lieuts at all, except maybe when paired up with a major or backed up by a colonel. The lieuts should win most opening conflicts (67% of moved pieces), but instead often just gets taken, and often by a piece only slightly higher ranked (capt and majors). With this loss in both piece and info strength that flank is usually at least temporarily won by the other player, until you can bring out something big, or bluff something big.
 
What are your opinions? Do (/can) you ever lead off with a Colonel or better?
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Re: Lead off piece
Reply #1 - May 4th, 2010, 9:14am
 
Marshall! Smiley
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Re: Lead off piece
Reply #2 - May 4th, 2010, 9:32am
 
My personal style consists of leading off with my marsh in combination with and assortment of pieces. I wouldn’t say it is the preferred long run method of success for any given player, but I've been doing it long enough to know that it works for me.  
 
If you play enough games, you will see that good players adjust their front rows to who they are playing. If you know your opponent likes to probe and prod at the beginning with scouts and sergs, you would want to put captains and liuets in the front. If you’re playing someone who comes in strong with majors or captains, you might want to have some scouts/sergs in the front row protected by majors or even a colonel. If you are going with a basic set up, not player specific, I would recommend something very similar to this in the front rows:
 
Serg  Scout                    liuet  Captain                        Liuet/serg    Scout
 
 
There are a lot of important battles fought in the front flanks. Here is a basic formula for scoring your start of a game.  
 
WIN            
-Take a piece within 2 ranks, and lose that piece to something 2+ ranks higher
-Take a piece and have yours traded with an unseen piece
-Take 2+ pieces and find something of value
-Lose a piece to something 3+ ranks higher
* These scenarios to not apply to anything higher than a major
**The scenarios in which you win by losing a piece and finding a high ranking piece are only winning scenarios if you use that information properly. Finding a Major with a serg is not a win if you take a major in and it gets mutually destructed. Even getting a scout and then trading is a loss, because you lost a serg, and they lost a scout.
 
LOSS
Pretty much just take the inverse of the win, and those are losses – i.e. losing initially to a piece 2- ranks = loss.
 
Keeping track of these initial battles and how well you are doing in the piece/info count is very important to the middle game. Although you may not see the rewards right away, consistently winning the initial battles will drastically improve your chances for success later on.
 
 
 
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Re: Lead off piece
Reply #3 - May 4th, 2010, 2:18pm
 
I have been using the "Captain" lotto since I joined the site.  I would say it is moderately effective against poor players, and has mixed results against better players.
 
Essentially, it works this way:
 
Put a captain on one far edge of the board and drive him as far as he will go.  In my experience, I almost always get the first piece (usually 7 or 9...sometimes a 6).  RARELY a bomb.  If he gets taken by a 4 or 3, that is good information, and I follow right behind with my 1.  I don't even consider the spy.  Most players NEVER spy the flanks.   In most cases, your 1 can get a 4 or 3 back if you play super aggressive (and also load that side with a 2 to follow the one).  
 
The dream scenario, one which gets you the maximum benefit, is the player whose flank is filled with junk.  You can decimate an entire side of 9, 7, 8 and 6 pieces when someone is loading the opposite side.  It is rare, but gives you a great piece edge early.  
 
So your five can get you a 3 or 4 early if you aggressively play the 1 next.
 
The downside is once the marshall is discovered, you better get going and destroy that side of the board.  Bring in the scouts, majors, and a colonel and get hacking.  Lotto.  You can't screw around.  Once the one is revealed, a strong opponent, if his power is centralized or opposite side, is going to start murdering you with his 2.  YOU MUST LOTTO, in my opinion, once your 1 is deep in enemy territory and known.  Get pieces down there and hack away.  
 
That is why my 2 is postioned central or opposite flank sceond row.  You opponent should bring his 2 down...and you are waiting.  I can use my spy to cover it, or use my spy to cover my other colonel.  
 
If you hit a bomb early with your captain, which is not the best, you get early info.  One less bomb equals better lotto chances.  I often take a 4 or a 5 and then plunge down the other flank.  If that gets taken by a higher piece, even more information for you.  Yes you are down, but now you have good info.  If you hit another bomb, that leaves only 4 left.  
 
I generally leave the middle of my opponents position alone.  Let him come in and get me I say.  I hate games where the opponent clogs the middle with an ever increasing number of hidden pieces.  That requires patience to play and I do not have any.  If I was to strike the middle, one really odd strategy is to plunge a 3 in.   It is suicide, but you get some great info really early, and must take advantage of it.  
Another strategy with the middle is to send an ever increasing number of bluffs forward after you lose the three (like scouts and such) to gain even more info).  That is why many opponents close the middle. with no entry points...removes a 7 or 9 bluff.
 
A final suicidal strategy is the general lotto.  Take that fruitcake with his silly hat and send him hacking into the middle...and then go left or right.  Odds of death?  Probably 50/50.  But you might avoid the 1, wipe out a front row side, and gain an early piece edge.  Of course, you could also hit a bomb, which sucks.  but it sure is fun.  Kind of like betting snake eyes at the craps table.
 
Alcohol helps with all of these strategies.  Blurs the lines of loyalty you have to your pieces, and makes it easier to send them to die.  
 
At the end of the day, I like an aggressive, balls-out approach.  Bluffing and shuffling make the game less exciting.  However, only a few players can really play this way effectively, and against top 10, ultra aggression is not going to work but in a rare instance.  
 
Ghostface, Commish, Khopioki are a couple of guys (i'd like to put myself in their class, but not really) who play this way, and they have a knack for playing well even when down.  THey use lotto skillfully.    
 
 
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Re: Lead off piece
Reply #4 - May 4th, 2010, 2:40pm
 
sorry to dirty up an entertaining entry devil, but u say u have your general right behind ur marsh, then later say it is on the other side of the board. are u playing with duel hatamous dorkamous'? if so, i would be more than interested to hear how you do this. if not, chalk up another blunder to Jack D. oh that jack D, always playing with that wheat thrasher...
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Re: Lead off piece
Reply #5 - May 4th, 2010, 4:40pm
 
To modify my previous post...the 2 can either accompany the power side, or be off in one of the other openings ready for the enemy 2.  Either way.  Sorry Sauce...my faux paus.
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Re: Lead off piece
Reply #6 - May 4th, 2010, 6:35pm
 
thank you devil, you just helped me take me a game to a new level (not joking)
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Re: Lead off piece
Reply #7 - May 4th, 2010, 7:01pm
 
I have no idea what front row pieces to lead with and I want to make sure that my opponent knows I have no idea.
 
The best lead off pieces are random.  Some games I load up with scouts front row.  Others I put power up and attack.
 
I believe the really good players like blaze just give away 6s and 7s as throw away pieces and hold onto scouts and miners like they are gold.  They uncover a treasure trove of information with those 8 pieces then begin the shuffle, bluff, and back up piece moving to get into position to cover.
 
Personally, I like the way UG plays.  He just says crappity smack You and starts with a Marsh in the front row.  Then he does nothing with it and still beats you.
 
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Re: Lead off piece
Reply #8 - May 4th, 2010, 8:22pm
 
Nice posts Gherkin, Sauce, D-Smack, and CS.  I like the strategy talk.  
 
Looking at my own set-ups, I found them filled with mostly lieut/serg/scout in the front six positions.  I will also put an occasional bomb there hoping to pick off an enemy major or captain.  I tend to want to probe and react to my opponents moves as opposed to taking risks from the start.  Thus, I am hesitant to put majors up front because once revealed they are vulnerable while so many higher ranking officers remain in the game.  Some players will attack a lieut with a major, thinking that the protecting piece will also be a major, but for me it’s too big of a risk that a colonel will be there.  UG’s success notwithstanding, I think anybody who leads with the marshal should have game plan in place about how exactly they are going to use it, as Sauce and D-Smack clearly do.
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Re: Lead off piece
Reply #9 - May 4th, 2010, 8:37pm
 
My secondary plan, most nights of the week, is to drink a liter of cheap vodka, focus on keeping my head upright to manuever the mouse, and send whatever piece I legally can into the other side.  The 1 and 2 go first, as any panzie ass officer should.  Lets see how brave that mustache-eod Marshall is when a few musket balls are firing past his mug.  
 
Strategy can be just that brilliant.
 
Why the flag cannot be moved is beyond me...but when left with nothing else I want that son of a pregnant dog firing his ass into enemy territory too.  He can bayonet someone at the very least.  
 
The best strategy, overall,  is to actually tug the body bags on the backs of the officers.  I see strategy as a chance to exact revenge; war is usually where a lot of rich white boys stay home as Non-commissioned officers behind desks.  Lets get that marshall and general packing a body bag, out of the trench and the desk, and double-timing straight into a horde of sabres and cannon fire.  Let the Vietcong skewer his nuts or a 20 pounder blow a hole in his rectum.    
 
Save the scouts and sergeants for the end to clean up.  Once the liter of vodka has begun deteriorating your consciousness and your liver, it won't much matter what you have left anyway.   Just hope you don't start bleeding from the eyes.
 
This advice is copyrighted...please ask permission before using.   Wink
 
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Re: Lead off piece
Reply #10 - May 5th, 2010, 8:34am
 
What's all this fuss?
The start of the game is fairly unimportant to any decent player.  
Initial losses or gains can easily be overcome in the middle and end game. Wink
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Re: Lead off piece
Reply #11 - May 6th, 2010, 3:54am
 
UG leads with his marsh? when did that start happening?
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Re: Lead off piece
Reply #12 - May 6th, 2010, 6:42am
 
only in unranked games so he can trick you into thinking thats how he plays and then beat u ina tournament game...
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Re: Lead off piece
Reply #13 - May 7th, 2010, 9:33am
 
I did not say he led with it.
 
I said he put it front row, let you find it, then never used it and still beat you.
 
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Re: Lead off piece
Reply #14 - May 7th, 2010, 10:29am
 
Grin Wink Smiley
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Re: Lead off piece
Reply #15 - May 10th, 2010, 12:33pm
 
This subject is a real strategic issue en talking about this is much better than all the sh***t, we have to deal with in many other postings.
 
Which piece do we use in the front rows and how can we use these pieces during the development of the game?
 
As an addition to the other great postings I like to bring up the relationship between the willing to sacrifice pieces and the required skills to realise the benefit of the sacrifice during the game. A part of this skill is memory in combination with pushing strategic pressure on the setup of your opponent after sacrifice.
 
Sacrificing Caps against a Major / Colo is useless if you can't remember the position of that Major. Especially if ur opponent is shuffling the Major into his setup. It's absolutely required that even after 20 minutes gaming you still remember the position of that specific Major. Some of us are coming up immediately with the 1 or 2 and are hitting the moved Major in the two field rule irrespective whether a spy / or one is behind it.
 
The latter is part of the let's say Commish / Fever / Ghostface Killah style. It's full risk, fun for them and spectaculair for watchers.  
However: I played the best live players in the World and I can tell you that these guys don't hit immediately the killer of the leading Captain. They are gathering information:
How does the opponent cover the Major? Is he using a buffer piece, easy to capture with another Cap? Is he covering the piece on one side or two sides? How does he move in the front of the other lanes?  
 
The real top players are using the sacrificing of their Caps and even their Majors to push you against the wall based on strategy / memory and bluffin. They know exactly where the killer of their Majors is hidden and they know every piece, which has been moved AND how it moved. The way of moving provides these guys a lot of info and they'll kill you based on instinct and their feeling about your remaining field position. Just before the phase of the end game, the remaining power- and bluf pieces of a top player are exactly in the valid position to kill and to defend the total field.  
 
Unfortunately most of us are no top players and don't have the required top memory and feeling in almost all games.    
Fortunately we are all able to try out the different styles and to discover on which skills we can lean on.  
Some of us lean on Lotto and killing immediately within four moves.
Others are very careful with their Masterpieces or are hiding and waiting behind the water within a Venus Fly trap as a defending specialist.  
Some others are pushing their attacking effort on just one side as good as they can and aren't moving the other sides at all.  
 
It's a challenge for all of us to meet all these different styles and to try to win your wars as much as we can.  
 
And there will be one day that you will kill a top player. Just once or twice in a negative streak of probably 20 games. How does that feeeeel?
 
HRL
 
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Re: Lead off piece
Reply #16 - May 10th, 2010, 1:53pm
 
Right.  
 
Do not forget that there is also a falcon flying over the board for most of the game. From time to time he drops and gives a good sting to one of the players. This lady falcon is not easy to control.
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Re: Lead off piece
Reply #17 - May 11th, 2010, 5:35am
 
You can choose a more or less fixed, but I think it's important to be flexible.
 
How can we be flexible on what? About the setting "normal" your enemy. Therefore, knowing which pieces usually put your enemy on the front lines, can be a good starting point.
But your enemy is not stupid and can be changed to surprise. The enemy will also consider your disposal. Then everything is complicated and comes in Lady falcon.
 
Therefore, I think the first part of the battle depends on some of these factors, in that order for me:
 
1 .- Lady falcon
2 .- To know your enemy (pieces disposal, play mode, etc.)
3 .- Intuition on changes / surprises of your enemy (previous games, personal intuition, mood of your enemy, etc.).
4.- Others
 
I put first lady falcon, because their influence in this part of game can be longer. As the game progresses, the pieces are known, create holes in the field (to flee, for conditioning, etc.), intentions are view, therefore, reduces potentially the luck factor.
 
 
Although I have to say that the Devil tactics to fill the belly of alcohol and throw yourself headlong into the death, taking you all before, it is very tempting.
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Re: Lead off piece
Reply #18 - May 11th, 2010, 1:58pm
 
Good to see you coming around to the Devil's point of view.  An alcohol-fueled stratego rampage is just the right tactics to play in stratego.  Forget strategy and nuance.  Plow baby.  And destroy
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Re: Lead off piece
Reply #19 - May 18th, 2010, 8:51pm
 
I like the 1 3 combo
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